2007-11-05 [Rennaisance Tiger King]: I am sure there are people who have died while playing FF from a heart attack or some other random cause. One publicized case of someone dieing on their computer while playing wow should not take away from the game until you show the medical prof that the game aided in or caused the man's death.

2007-11-05 [Duke Devlin]: The man died due to the game addiction. A heart attack or other medical cause, yes would be bad, but not the games fault. It was proven that the man died becuase he was too addicted to care about anything else; thus he didn't eat, bathe, or drink.. This is entirely possible to happen with FF, but since it is not so addictive, then it is less likely. It is WoW's greatness that is its own undoing ;)

2007-11-05 [Rennaisance Tiger King]: Again I have to say that the intellectual prowess of the people who play a game should not count for or against how "good" the game is. Unless you have some medical prof that states the man could not stop playing because of WOW and not because he was a moron I do not see the point you are trying to make here.

2007-11-05 [Duke Devlin]: You are very closed minded aren't you? I was simply saying that he died due the addictive properties of the game. You have turned this into an unfriendly argument rather than a friendly debate. Charming.
And you had not previously said anything on the intellectual prowess of the players.., so the 'again' was unnecessary.
I was not saying that WoW was a bad game, simply that I do not believe it to be the best; and if we were basing the #1 game on the amount of people that died while playing it, then FF would win. If we were not, and basing it on the best ONLINE game instead, then WoW would win.
If we were basing the #1 game status on the number of players that could interact at once; WoW. If we were basing it on storyline that is interesting and captivating; FF.
You see?
My overall point was that it is impossible to determine the best game of all time, as everyone has different tastes, and no one sees things as the same. I prefer FF, you prefer WoW. Simple.
You cannot group a game like FF with a game like WoW, it doesn't work, they are too different.

2007-11-05 [Rennaisance Tiger King]: I never turned this into a negative conversation you just perceived it that way so do not blame me for that. I said again because I was just restating my what i said earlier in a different manner. And once again I have to say that man did not die because of wow. he died because he did not eat and sleep. You can say "well he did not eat and sleep because of wow." well I disagree with that as well, the game did not make him stay up and not eat. I eat while playing the game all the time its simple multi tasking. I also have to disagree with your statement that FF would be the best based on how many people died playing it (which is a silly category for rating a game to begin with don't you agree?) To find the best game based on that would take years of research, but I would put my money on frogger. And to the main point, I do believe you can rate games in a broad category websites and fan based events have been doing it for years. Also I have never actually read the FF story line but I do believe that they are not all connected so I do not see how you rate the FF story line over the warcraft story line that has been going on in one connected stream since 1994. and the last bit of my long post was I never ment to offend you and I am sorry if you took it that way, I just like talking about games.

2007-11-05 [Duke Devlin]: The FF story lines are amazing, try playing them >>
I perceived the conversation negatively because you were being blunt and unnecessarily mean. (Well, not mean, you were just saying 'I don't see your point you are TRYING to make.. blah)
I did not say WoW killed him. I have said ALL along that he died while playing it; it was a bad thing, and adds to the general statistics of deaths in the game. The fact that he did not eat etc was his fault, but my point remains valid; he died WHILE playing the game. So still the statistic remains the same. No one has died while playing FF as far as I know, and someone has died while playing WoW, so if this stupid catagory was what governed the #1 game, then FF would win.
Fan sites/events and websites may catagorise things like that, but they are simply fanbased events and websites; they don't really matter do they? And for the record I do think it is a stupid catagory; it was simply an example ;)
If someone were to die due to lack of eating/starvation while playing Final Fantasy I would still be saying the same point. XP
Oh, and I am sure that World of Warcraft has a great storyline, but I simply don't know it, and I wasn't aware that it was so connected as you say.
Final Fantasy has been going for just as long as WoW as far as I know, even though it is not connected together, it doesn't mean it is not a good storyline; many people believe it is better. But again, it is all opinion.
Also, how many people have died playing Frogger? oO

2007-11-05 [Rennaisance Tiger King]: I do not doubt that many if not all of the FF story lines are good. I was just stating my reason for why my opinion is the way it is.
Can we please drop "how many people have died" statements they are invalid and have nothing to do with how good a game is. You can not prove more people died while playing wow then any random game, I picked frogger because there is no way someone can play a game in which you get a frog across a road over and over until they die. The points someone should look at to determine how good a game is are some of the following; Game play, interface, expandability, longevity and so on. some people consider graphics but thats of secondary concern to myself.

2007-11-05 [Duke Devlin]: I agree, graphics are very unimportant in placing the value of a game. They are simply not as important as the other key elements you listed.
I was using that as an extreme example; you kept it going too ;)
In short; I do not think it is possible to determine what is the best game ever created. Do you agree?
We can all have opinions, we can all have favourite games, but no one can say for definate that some game is the best. No one would manage to completely agree on a 'best game', like I say, it is impossible. But for the record; I think FF is best ;) As you evidently think WoW is ;)
For all we know, Assassins Creed will be the proposed 'best' game ever, completely blowing thesetwo away ;) Though it wouldn't be the best.
Because the best cannot be defined.
You agree yes? =)

2007-11-05 [Rennaisance Tiger King]: I agree with certain points. I do not agree that the best can not be defined. I think it most certainly can be.

2007-11-05 [Duke Devlin]: I think that the best in certain catagories can be defined, but the overall best cannot be. It is your opinion; you believe what you want. But in my opinion, it is impossible as no one would agree.

2007-11-05 [Rennaisance Tiger King]: It was never my goal to get everyone to agree. Can everyone agree on anything? I don't think so.I believe there can be categories of best, as well as an overall best. Its pretty simple you just lay down what makes a game game fun to play and compare which one has the best of all those things, but I in no way had any delusion that everyone would agree on a single game as the best. If you asked the masses I believe Halo 3 would be very near the top and everyone knows I despise that game. 

2007-11-05 [Little Insane Cat]: very interesting debate, i personally lay with wow but that is probably due to my lack of knowledge in the FF department. Anywho i think this debate could be really interesting if duke read the Wow storyline and tiger read the FF storyline and see how you guys think of them.

2007-11-05 [Little Insane Cat]:

2007-11-05 [Rennaisance Tiger King]: haha cutie, welcome back from school :D

2007-11-05 [Little Insane Cat]: i got an exam and another paper due today >< :'(

2007-11-05 [Rennaisance Tiger King]: awww that sucks :( you ready for it?

2007-11-05 [Little Insane Cat]: heck no lol

2007-11-05 [Rennaisance Tiger King]: of course :P i will think you will do fine.

2007-11-05 [Little Insane Cat]: lol i hope so

2007-11-05 [Rennaisance Tiger King]: well you are a smarite so just relax and it will be alright :D

2007-11-05 [Duke Devlin]: W/e ;) I will read the WoW storyline, though it will do little good. Though I do agree, Halo would probably 'win', though I don't think 3 would ;)